Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

When in Aggressive Stance, the unit gains +50% attack, but suffers a -25% armour penalty*. The unit gains a larger field of vision towards the direction it is moving to. Units auto-acquire enemies when they come into the unit's attack range. So its stats become: 150% damage, 75% armour

So, your units deal 1.5 times as much attack damage than normal, at the cost of losing some armour. Therefore, it is best to use this stance when your units attack buildings, when debuffed, and when you can make a flank/rear attack on an opposing enemy unit. I'll explain why:

When you are attacking buildings, unless it is upgraded with an arrow tower, or has gained some defenses, the building is not going to attack back, and armour isn't much of an issue. So, you can take down buildings faster than normally, without casuing too much of a penalty on yourself. Using this stances makes taking down buildings easier. Then you can move on to the next one faster.



Here, the Warg Lair is now undefended, and only the Lair remains.. Since there isn't an enemy near it, you can use Aggressive Stance with the Soldiers, which allows you to tear down buildings a lot faster than in Hold Ground Stance or Battle Stance. Then you can switch back to Hold Ground Stance to move your troops to their next location.


It should also be used when making a flank/rear attack on the opponent. Why? Since because you are hitting them from a flank, your units get a damage bonus from attacking a unit from behind, or from the side. Because if a unit is tangled up with another unit, you can get free hits on it, and it won't attack back. Again, armour isn't much of an issue here, so you can use aggressive stance, and deal even more damage, making the opponent fall quicker.



Here you see the Gondor Soldiers completely surrounded. The Orcs on the right are in Guard Stance, since they are taking the main brunt of the attacks. The Orcs on the bottom are using Aggressive Stance, since they aren't taking much damage, and dealing back much more damage than normal. It is especially usefull here, since the Soldiers are in Block Formation/Guard Stance, offering +75% armour.



Same as the one before, the Orcs on top are using Aggressive Stance to deal a heaping amount of damage to the Soldiers, which will quickly succumb to the attacks. Then they will move on to the enemy base if possible.


Also, be sure to use Aggressive Stance when attacking enemy builders. You take them down quicker due to the damage bonus, so they have less of a chance to escape.

When it comes to units like Gondor Soldiers and Uruk Warriors, that have the Shield Wall Formation (also known as, and refered to as Block formation), the formation adds +25% armour, but units lose 40% speed. When Aggressive Stance and Block Formation are combined, the stats go to: 150% damage, 100% armour, -40% speed. This allows them to retain their default armour value, but lets them deal 1.5 times more damge from the aggressive stance. This is a formidable combination that allows these units to deal a lot of damage while taking normal damage in return.

Make sure that when your units are under a debuff (Cave Bats/Crebain, Dread Visage, Doubt) that causes them to lose armour and attack damage, use Aggressive Stance. Since your units are going to die easily anyways, might as well make them deal as much damage as possible to whatever they are facing.

When you have troops under a hero's leadership, Spell leadership like Rallying Call and Warchant, or both, you should be using Aggressive stance as well. Your units are gaining +50% damage and +50% armour at a minimum, so you only lose 25% armour, but end up doubling your damage output. This combo makes them very powerful vs fortresses, especially with a Mordor ally, since you can have the Eye + Leadership Spell + Aggressive Stance, and buildings will literally fall after one attack round.

There is an exception though. Sometimes it is best to lose the extra bonus of 25% armour, and use the full armour cap, so your units survive longer vs more units, especially if they are in the same formation. Then it is a good time to use Guard Stance with your troops. Thanks to Gansnudel for making a good point here.




These Rohirrim are going around with Eomer to harass the enemy economy (yes I didn't have much map control since I was rebuilding). They are benefiting from +50% damage and +50% armour. But, you cna use Aggressive, and deal double damage than normal, with 25% extra armour. Buildings fall down literally in a few seconds to this combo.




Another example here. The selected Lancers have just been buffed with the Rallying Call spell. It would be pointless to use Guard Stance, sicne they would have +100%, with a cap at 75%. So a 25% bonus would be wasted. By using Aggressive, they gain 100% damage, while losing 25% armour. The Rallying Call benefit takes this, and it is now modified to +25% armour. Thus, we have 200% damage, 125% armour. This works better, since they still get extra armour, but can deal more damage to crack enemy defences.



With Cavalry, they have two types of attacks: the melee and trample. Stances have recently been found to alter the damage from trampling. So, when you have a group of Lancers for example, you can charge some enemy infantry in Aggressive Stance and deal +50% more damage than normal. Though, remember to switch back to Guard Mode, and get out of the enemy battalion, as they will deal damage back to you, and try to "latch on" slowing down your cavalry as they try to retreat, taking free hits from behind.



Here, you see the Rohirrim are going to charge into the Orcs. Now, since the Orcs are going to be in Guard Stance, you want to use Aggressive Stance to help deal as much damage as possible. Especially since they are making a rear attack, which will deal double damage, which means most to all of the horde of Orcs will die.



Then, when your Rohirrim slow down due to the amount of Orcs, switch to Guard Stance, and melee the infantry for a few seconds before retreating. This will help your guys get away without the opponent being able to hook on to your cavalry, and deal double damage from a rear attack in Aggressive Stance.


Rohirrim and Spider Riders are a special type of cavalry. They can be melee cavalry, and ranged cavalry. What is good with this, is that the Stances give bonuses to these guys when they are in either mode: Melee or archer mode. So if you use Aggressive Stance on Rohrrim with bows taken out, the pierce damage they deal is +50% higher than in the default stance. They will also target enemies up to their maxium shooting range while in Aggressive Stance with bows out.


Another note: When you have melee infantry and cavalry, when facing heroes that are on foot or on horse, use Aggressive. Heroes will one-hit kill most infantry anways, due to their x2 damage multiplier with Hero damage vs regular units. So like when under debuffs, you want to use this to deal as much damage as you can vs the enemy hero. What is great too, is that if he retreats, your units (which already are dealing 150% damage to him) deal double damage, so he either has to stand, fight and die, or retreat and die twice as fast. It's a win-win situation for you, especially if you have the hero flanked or surrounded.

Aggressive should also be used when your infantry have latched onto cavalry that is retreating. For example:



These Orcs are now latched onto the Wargs, and are getting flanking bonuses. So, by using Aggressive, they are dealing an extra 200% damage, totaling to 300% normal damage! So, the wargs are in a tight spot by retreating, since now the Orcs can take cheap shots at them, until they lose enough units to break free.

Update: When you have units in Aggressive Stance, they gain a bonus to their field of vision. This allows them to see farther in front of them, which allows them to see threats sooner than normal. It might be a good idea to use it when entering territory you haven't visited in a while, as it will let you scout as much of the surronding area as possible. Thanks to EagleEye82 for mentioning this.


So, you want to use Aggressive Stance vs anything that can't attack you back (like buildings), when trampling, when you have Leadership, or when you have debuffed stats. It helps you deal as much damage as possible, while not hurting you too much, since your troops are either going to die (from debuffed armour), kill buildings much faster than normal, or deal heaps of damage with extra armour.

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This is the Default Stance. Offers no bonuses or penalties. The unit gets no vision bonus or penalty. Units will acquire enemies over a medium range. Stats are: 100% damage, 100% armour.

There are only tw points really, that your units should be in this stance. Otherwise, opt for one of the other stances:

If you have Gondor Soldiers or Uruk Warriors, and they have some for or Leadership, it is a good idea to use Battle Stance. Mainly since, you can use Block Formation, and get to the 75% armour cap, while gaining 50% damage. It makes these guys last really long, and deal a lot of damage. Thanks to Gansnudel for making that point.

The only time I would use this, is if I need to retreat from a desperate situation. Let's say I have an Elven Lancer battalion that has been harassing, and is down to 2-3 members, while enemy pikes are chasing them. I want to make sure I have some armour so my guys won't get picked off by enemy archers, but I can't afford to switch to Guard Stance, since the pikes will latch on, and kill the rest of the battalion. I can use Battle Stance then, so I can make my retreat, so that the Lancers can heal up and get back into action.

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When in Hold Ground Stance, units get a -25% damage penalty, but get a +50% armour bonus**. Units will hold their ground and not attack enemies, unless instructed to do so. Stats are: 75% damage, 150% armour.

Units should be in this stance around 80-90% of the time. It is a lot better than the Battle Stance when it comes to wanting armour and damage output. Your troops' armour is increased by 1.5 times. The damage penalty is pretty small, and it allows your units to survive much longer than normal. Especially if you are a Gondor Soldier or Uruk Warrior.

*An important note: When you use Guard Stance, the unit will automaticallystop what it was doing. It cancels move and attack orders, so they have to be reassigned again. So for something like horses trying to get out of a trample, it may be best to melee some of the guys, while switching to Guard. Then retreat after a path has opened up. Thanks to bruesie for mentioning this.*

Remember that Uruks and Soldiers have the Block Formation that gives them +25% armour and -40% speed? Well, if you combine this stance with the Shield Wall Formation, they will have stats of: 75% damage, 175% armour. Right up to the Armour cap. This allows them to survive longer than Guardians in Guard Stance! It allows these guys tank (hold back) other units while back up comes to support them. This combo makes them very strong in this respect.



These soldiers are taking the benefit of a lot of extra armour by using Guard Stance and Block formation. Though, he should be fighting in Aggressive and Block, to give a stat of 200% damage, 150% armour. Be sure to use the formation first, as stances are cancelled out by formations. Then use the appropriate stance.

As to other units, it is necessary to keep them in Guard Stance when moving around, and when in combat. Why so? Because it lets them live longer. If you need to micro in a couple of areas, if your units are in Guard Stance, units are a lot more hardy to things like Archer battalions that may be hidden around trying to pick off your foes. The only real way units would die quickly, is if a melee unit came and hit them from behind, or a cavalry unit trampled them from a flank or rear attack. Remember, your opponent will be in Guard Stance too. This lets you keep even ground with them, as in boh will dealaround normal damage to each other, and the outcome will be of the better unit in terms or health of damage. It also lets units with small amounts of health (Elven units, Orcs and Goblins) survive much longer so they can benefit you more. Run around with Lorien Swordsmen in Guard Stance to take enemy fire, then switch to Aggressive when attacking his building, to unleash 120 damage per sword strike against the building.



An example of the above. These Lancers are in Guard Stance, in case any enemy comes to attack, so they can stand up to it. It also makes it so that they hold their ground and don't pursue enemy forces. It is especially useful for when the opponent has pikes, so your cavalry doesn't blindly charge into them, killing every single member of the battalion or horde.




Another good example of using Guard Stance. Normally, these Goblin Warriors would die from 1-2 arrows. But, now that they are in Guard, they need double the amount of arrows before dying. This allows them to get to where they need to go, while ensuring that quite a few members of the battalion or horde remain after to harass and/or fight.


Units should be in Guard Stance when facing opponents in combat. Why? Not only does it give them extra armour, but it also keeps the enemy tied up in combat longer than he probably wants. You can bring in reinforcements from behind his troops, and use them in Aggressive stance to deal a whole bunch of damage to his units. The only time you will not want to be in Guard Stance when fighting enemy melee troops with your own, is when it is either a Gondor Soldier battalion or Isengard uruk Warrior Horde, in BOTH Guard Stance and Block Formation. In this case, their units will beat yours if you stay in Guard Stance, so use Aggressive to deal as much damage as you can vs the highly armoured guys.



As you see, these Lancers are using Guard Stance, so they survive longer vs the opposing Lancers with the Rallying Call buff. That, along with archers add their damage to the enemy, will cause the opposing cavalry to die quickly, and force them to retreat, rather than mowing down the original cavalry and going to harass.

Another handy use forr Guard Stance, is when you want to keep heroes and troops from roaming off:



By using Guard Stance, these Mithlond Sentries will hold their ground, and thus become stealthed in the trees. They won't wander off to find enemy troops, and enemy cavalry will run into a nasty suprise if they run into these guys without knowing they are there. This is very useful for units like heroes, in particular, Leadership heroes like Theoden and Gorkil, or debuff heroes such as Nazgul or Mouth of Sauron. These rather fragile heroes can offer their benefits to their army, while remaining safe behind the allied forces fighting. They also won't run off to attack anything, as it can get annoying to watch your Theoden want to attack enemy pikes, and kill himself in the process. This solves that problem.


Update: When in Guard Stance, units suffer a small vision penalty. While it doesn't affect archers all that much, melee units may need the ability to see more of the field at times, to see if there is an enemy force coming to intercept your forces. It may be useful to switch stances, but the penalty isn't usually big enough to cause problems. Thanks to EageEye82 for mentioning this.


The Guard Stance is going to be the most used stance out of the 3 you have at your disposal. You should always have it activated when moving your troops around, when fighting enemy infantry most of the time, and when you need to hold a chokepoint until reinforcements can come save them, or replace the fallen warriors.

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For the Heroes and Archers, stances work a little bit differently than melee troops and cavalry. The notes are as follows.

*When heroes and archers are in Aggressive Stance, they only gain the ability to auto-acquire enemies up to their maximum attack range, and will pursue them until they reach their range limit, where they will then retuen to the starting position. Not affected by damage and armour stat changes.

**When in Guard Stance, heroes and archers will only attack when you instruct them to do so. Not affected by damage and armour stat changes.


Also, a thing often missed by players when in the game and in combat, is with the Gondor Soldiers and Uruk Warriors. If you use a formation, the stance the battalion was in is cancelled out, and is reset to the default Battle Stance (100% damage, 100% armour). So, when using these troops with Stances, use the Shield Wall Formation first, then choose what stance you want to use, whether it is Guard Stance or Aggressive Stance. This will let both the formation and the stance stack with each other. Normally people will use the stance they want, then the formation. They think that they have a stance and formation activated, when only the formation is being used. So, use your formation first, then the stance. It allows these guys to deal a lot of damage with no armour penalty, or allows them to tank and soak up a lot more damage than normally possible.


Well, there you have it. Some of the best ways to use stances and formations in combat. If you have any questions about this, ask me, and I will answer as best as I can. Also, leave feedback if there is anything you want to add, or comment on my guide in general. I will update regularly. Thanks for reading!

This post has been edited by Ranger08: Jun 10 2006, 10:06 AM

I didn't know that the shield wall reset the formation...no wonder my uruks don't last as long as I expect sometimes...thanks! Good info!

Why is the vision/range penalty from aggressive and defensive stances not mentioned in this topic?

Well, I am only human, and this was one of the subtler things about stances I really didn't think much about. I will update the guide with this included. Thanks for noting it.

I have noticed that troops that are switched to guard stance cancel their movement. So it might not be the best idea to switch your (for example) cav from aggressive to guard stance if you want to get out of trouble quickly.

Yes. This is one of the things that annoys a lot of players, since they have to reassign orders, whether to move or attack. I will make a note of it in the guide. Thanks for bringing it up.


Also, I want to get some screenshots in here soon, to help out. Pictures help make understanding things a lot easier.

This post has been edited by Ranger08: May 31 2006, 14:21 PM

Great guide, add a few screenshots and you can have an article medal

It needs some screenshots to bring it to life

Darky

Allthough a little short, this is good a good quality guide which will be helpful for new players and more experienced players, actually even I hadn't seen that agressive gives better scouting range. Screenshots ftw and this guide will have what it deserves, a medal!

That was far from short tbh. Very well written m8, very well written.

UPDATED! Screenshots have been added to better clarify how to use stances. Thanks to all the feedback I have thus far. Continue posting if you have suggestions, thoughts or ideas, and I can add them in for you.

This post has been edited by Ranger08: Jun 6 2006, 04:39 AM

A gem

yeah this guide now officially rocks!

I give new players this link all the time and i'm sure it really helps them

ps: nice new pics

Nice guide Ranger, I have a question though. How can I change the hotkeys? I want to have other letters for agressive, battle and guard stances. The D, F, G hotkeys are not very convinient for me and everytime I want to change stances I do it from palantir with the mouse.

Where can I edit these hotkeys from (an INI file?) and will I be able to continue playing online?

Isn't the aggressive stance better for low hp high attack units like the lorien swordsmen and the defensive better for high hp low(in comparison to hp) attack units?

but i thought stances dont affect archers??

As far as I know, you can't switch the hotkeys around. I think if you could, it would be in the .ini and:

1. I barely know how to check that, and
2. That would be modding game files, which gives yourself an unfair advantage over other players, which GR doesn't support.



Well it depends. If you have your Lorien Swordsmen running around in Aggressive all the time, they may do more damage, but they will get killed a lot faster. Archers can pick them off, and take advantage of the weakened armour of your troops. With units like Guardians, while it may seem logical to have them in Guard to soak up a ton of damage, you sometimes want to deal a lot of damage, so you want Aggressive, to deal with buildings, or higher HP foes (like opposing Guardians in Guard Stance, or Soldiers in Block Formation/Guard Stance) so you can actually crack their high defense.



They do affect archers. They just don't offer an attack or armour bonus to the units. They will target and engage units farther in their attack range in Aggressive, and benefit from an improved line of sight, while they will not attack unless ordered to, and lose some vision in Guard Stance.

so gaurd stance is pretty much useless for archers?

Very nice guide!

I disagree on two things though:
1)You say that units with rallying call/leadership should be put in aggressive stance, so that the armor bonus doesn´t get wasted. That´s not always the best solution. An increase in armor from 50% to 75% effectively doubles the hp, so those extra 25% are worth as much as the first 50%. A unit with 25% armor on the other hand has only effectively base hp*4/3.

So a rally called unit in aggressive has only about 1/3rd of the hp of a rally called unit in defensive. Since a rallycalled unit in aggressive stance deals less than double damage compared to a rally called unit in guard stance, the guard stance unit will win.

2) you say that the default stance should never be used. That´s generally correct, however both soldiers and uruks have the shieldwall formation that gives them +25% armor. Combined with a buff like rallying call it is best to put them in default stance, so you hit exactly the 75% cap, but don´t waste any damage.

First, nice avatar. A good picture of the LotR: Strategy Battle game model.

To your question, Guard Stance can be useful for Archers. If you want them to hold fire, and not wander off to attack random enemies, then you can use it. Also, it is good for Archers like Mirkwoods, Lorien Archers and Rangers, that can stealth in trees. Then, you can order a fire command to ambush a group of enemies passing by to destroy them.



I can agree with you on both points really. But, for the first point, I say to use Agressive Stance, since it is nice to have double armour, you do miss out on +25% armour and damage bonuses. If you use Aggressive Stance, you gain a little bit extra armour which helps, but can deal out double damage with your units. It causes buildings and units like Guardians to fall down like flies. I guess it is one of the few times you can use Battle Stance, and get the best of both worlds.

As to the Shield Wall/Guard Stance and LD bonus point: I agree with you here as well.Seeing as 75% armour is the cap, and you get a chunky 50% damage bonus.

I'll be adding both points to the guide.

I need to get this game tbh.