Timeline i promised you this months ago, and now i had the time and here it is. I hope this helps anyone who is struggling. I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has but gimme time Im not a fan of watching replays tho, that is why i gave up the SM post, and no this is not me trying 2 get it back b4 anyone suggests that.
This is by no means a full guide to GvC. It is not going to feature all feasible build orders or all adaptions or anything like that. Nor will it be prettily arranged because i am incapable of using the coding of this site. This is going to be split into two parts, my favoured build orders and some general tips. The tips will be posted at some point in the near future as a seperate topic.
Build Orders.
GvC build orders need to be designed taking into account the following things. - They need to provide a basis for expansion, at least one expansive tunnel is advantageous. - They need to be stable against a fast gat/th combo - They need to provide sufficent income to compete with the china - You need to be able to adapt them to put sufficent pressure on your opponent - It is preferable that you can use your build order to defeat a flank wf strat. - Suseptability to supply truck rush
The truth is no build order, at least that i have found has ticked all the boxes here. So here are some of my favoured build orders, they are not neccesarily the best as other players have excelled based on other stratergies but i have found these succesful.
3 Base Tunnel Dual Supply
I will start with the most stable of all the build orders i use. I like to use this vs opponents that are very unpredictable but tend to be agressive, or those which i expect to play a fast gat th or flank wf build order. The advantages of this build order are that you have 3 base tunnels to defend against a gat th and can get your tunnels up in time to stop a supply truck rush.
Build order 1st worker - Barracks - que 2 or 3 terrorists which you send to middle and or flanks. 2nd worker - Main supply (after completion makes Arms Dealer) Following this you need to make the central tunnel asap infront of your supply. Then you build your second supply, and the two half flank tunnels as shown in replay (i hope). Build your arms dealer with worker from main supply.
This build order is very solid however it doesnt allow you to put a great amount of pressure upon your opponents. I like to send a worker (as soon as available) from my base to my oil and one rpg (from nearest tunnel) to garison the bunker there. I build the tunnel as soon as i have sufficent spare money. I also send an rpg to the bunker on the other flank from the nearest tunnel. I make a tech as my first unit and fill it with the remaining 4 rpgs and one worker. I will then try to harras my opponent with this and build an expansion tunnel. From here on its up to you. I have attached a replay.
This has become my favourite GvC stratergy and is probably the best overall (imo). Your success in grabbing at least one oil however is crucial. The build order is relatively stable however your lack of cash flow at the very start can leave you vulnerable to a large/fast gat th. It is very effective against a middle supply b0 as you can pressure them heavily early on vastly reducing their cash flow.
Im not going to go thru the build order instead plz just watch one (or several) of the replays. I appologise if any of these are not of the correct build order.
A very effective stratergy that relies on you maintaining a presence in the middle of the map. It is particuarly effective (if you can get ur tunnels up) against a middle supply stratergy. You need to stop the china from spamming straight through the middle and use this time to build tunnels in your base. The stratergy gives you plenty of scope to be agressive if that is required. This build order is however weak against a flank wf and can be troublesome vs a wf/af combo. The main points for this build order is to be as agressive as possible and try to hold your position in the middle. If you loose one flank tunnel you need to ensure you defend against any gats/flamers that may come that way with a scorpian.
This can be done either as shown below or by tweaking the placement of your tunnels to mirror that of the stratergy shown above. The advantage of that is that you can pressure your opponent more easily however you may find you loose one oil doing so (and are more likely to loose both in a disaster situation). This build order is very risky and leaves your workers quite vulnerable. I only normally use it from the top spot as i can protect my workers better there by placing my supply as shown in the replay. You may be under the kosh early on using this stratergy however once you reach mid game with the cash boost of the oils and 2 supplys you will be in a very strong position.
I realise that the build order is only the start of the struggle and when i get the time i will produce a set of tips that can be used in certain situations to your advantage. Hope you found this useful. I will give some general tips on adaption in the next article however you will need to remember that you need to adapt in different ways with different build orders. Practice and experience is the key.
This post has been edited by BiohazarD: Jun 25 2007, 20:09 PM
dual oil grab is not really going to work if china goes middle and runs over workers (which is the bo i usually use) so imo best is going middle cars and tunneling 1 flank and getting 2 supplies while just doing good harassment
dual oil grab is not really going to work if china goes middle and runs over workers (which is the bo i usually use) so imo best is going middle cars and tunneling 1 flank and getting 2 supplies while just doing good harassment
o rly. Amazin how many times iv made it work then.
dual oil grab is not really going to work if china goes middle and runs over workers (which is the bo i usually use) so imo best is going middle cars and tunneling 1 flank and getting 2 supplies while just doing good harassment
ive got it to work against supply trucks as well.
this is what i do:
1st worker barrack. Then send the worker just below middle to build a forward tunnel. - from the barrack make 3 terrorist. The first terrorist goes to the near terror car. If your good enough you will either take out the supply truck or you will gain the terror car which u can then use to take out any supply truck threats. the 2nd terrorist you send to with your 3rd worker to the near oil to take out any supply trucks. The 3rd terrorist goes to the far oil to take out any supply trucks near the far oil. Then u make 2 rebels + capture upgrade. You send the first up the flank to the far oil (make sure you DO NOT send it across the middle as it will get eaten up gats) Then u send the second rebel to the near oil.
2nd worker supply, and then AD
3rd worker to near oil and build a tunnel asap (so that you at least garuntee one oil)
4th worker to build 2nd supply
You have no tunnels protecting your primary supply AD or 2nd supply but you will easily be able to stop supply trucks with the 3 terrorists and once you gain at least one oil then you build tunnels near your supply. Or if china appears to apply quick pressure to your forward tunnel you must build tunnels near your supply asap. This strat also does well against flank WF because you send a terrorist to scout both flanks plus you will have the car.
Chinas rarely send STs down the flanks because these days they are very stupid and very predictable. Last person to give me problems with supply trucks was rans but hes died a few months ago and i wasnt able to use this strat against him. But here it is against an above average china. I didnt send the terrorist to their exact positon because i knew what he was going to do
btw bio i have added this into the strategy guide index
This post has been edited by -Gambler-: Jun 27 2007, 21:09 PM
wot if they early sup truck rush, seems that 1 tunnel wont be good enough to cover the wide area of the base
you should be OK providing that you send a terrorist up the middle and one terrorist to each flank. You will have to have very good map awareness and very good micro at the beginning if you intend to stop all supply trucks. This is the most difficult strat to master imo because of all the variations and options it provides but it is also the best strategy for the same reasons
I dont disagree with gambler in that his method is perhaps more solid but i prefer to gamble. I would rather take the chance on my terrors and my base. If truck owns all ur workers its unfortunate but hey whilst he is watching that u can pwn his trucks.
truck micro > terrorists even with forcefire. You cant hurt his econ when you lose all your money and have nothing to build I remember me not having any workers when I played vs ub3r LaMe because of the trucks...so I used a little different bo and was more cautious without losing workers and it was much easier so dont go for too much
you should be OK providing that you send a terrorist up the middle and one terrorist to each flank. You will have to have very good map awareness and very good micro at the beginning if you intend to stop all supply trucks. This is the most difficult strat to master imo because of all the variations and options it provides but it is also the best strategy for the same reasons
thanks. ive noticed on the reps that sometimes the terroists dont explode immediatly but after sey 2 seconds. ZH dosent really have this, this could increase the affect of sup trucks. and isnt 3 terroists $600, a waste if 1 gat just takes them out?
thanks. ive noticed on the reps that sometimes the terroists dont explode immediatly but after sey 2 seconds. ZH dosent really have this, this could increase the affect of sup trucks. and isnt 3 terroists $600, a waste if 1 gat just takes them out?
If you have enough money in the early game i HIGHLY recommend you make 3 terrorists. If you send one up the middle u can take out the 1st gat if china makes a mistake in wf placement or his dozer starts dancing out of the CC. The next terrorist goes to the far oil flank which serves the purpose of taking out a dozer if china goes flank WF or if he send a st down the flank. The next terrorist goes to the near oil flank to protect the workers against supply trucks so that you can get a tunnel up and at least one oil. If china doesnt go flank WF or sends a supply truck down the flanks, all you do is send the terrorists up the flank and to the supplies to take out the supply trucks collecting (Nubbe used to be very good at this and posted some replays awhile back). If china does send a gat to take out the terrors the terrorist will have reached the back of the base which means china wil have to send the gat back which will delay a gat th and allow you to get some more units and some more tunnels. OFC there will be times when china will out micro you with their supply trucks or ur terrorist will delay and change their mind about making the ultimate sacrifice, but you shouldnt defer to a conservative strat because of it (unless ur rly desperate) chances are china will not be able to out micro your terrors every time and after all this game is not all skillzors
This post has been edited by -Gambler-: Jul 1 2007, 23:30 PM
Great tips from everyone. I've watched all the replays and currently am solo training just the bo's, so they become second nature. Great, great help. I hope to translate this into improved CW matches. More competitive I mean. Thanks a ton!
Great tips from everyone. I've watched all the replays and currently am solo training just the bo's, so they become second nature. Great, great help. I hope to translate this into improved CW matches. More competitive I mean. Thanks a ton!
np man. Some more will probably come soon about micro n just general tips but i gota get around 2 writing it
This is by no means a full guide to GvC. It is not going to feature all feasible build orders or all adaptions or anything like that. Nor will it be prettily arranged because i am incapable of using the coding of this site. This is going to be split into two parts, my favoured build orders and some general tips. The tips will be posted at some point in the near future as a seperate topic.
Build Orders.
GvC build orders need to be designed taking into account the following things.
- They need to provide a basis for expansion, at least one expansive tunnel is advantageous.
- They need to be stable against a fast gat/th combo
- They need to provide sufficent income to compete with the china
- You need to be able to adapt them to put sufficent pressure on your opponent
- It is preferable that you can use your build order to defeat a flank wf strat.
- Suseptability to supply truck rush
The truth is no build order, at least that i have found has ticked all the boxes here. So here are some of my favoured build orders, they are not neccesarily the best as other players have excelled based on other stratergies but i have found these succesful.
3 Base Tunnel Dual Supply
I will start with the most stable of all the build orders i use. I like to use this vs opponents that are very unpredictable but tend to be agressive, or those which i expect to play a fast gat th or flank wf build order. The advantages of this build order are that you have 3 base tunnels to defend against a gat th and can get your tunnels up in time to stop a supply truck rush.
Build order
1st worker - Barracks - que 2 or 3 terrorists which you send to middle and or flanks.
2nd worker - Main supply (after completion makes Arms Dealer)
Following this you need to make the central tunnel asap infront of your supply. Then you build your second supply, and the two half flank tunnels as shown in replay (i hope). Build your arms dealer with worker from main supply.
This build order is very solid however it doesnt allow you to put a great amount of pressure upon your opponents. I like to send a worker (as soon as available) from my base to my oil and one rpg (from nearest tunnel) to garison the bunker there. I build the tunnel as soon as i have sufficent spare money. I also send an rpg to the bunker on the other flank from the nearest tunnel. I make a tech as my first unit and fill it with the remaining 4 rpgs and one worker. I will then try to harras my opponent with this and build an expansion tunnel. From here on its up to you. I have attached a replay.
Dual Oil Grab Single Supply
This has become my favourite GvC stratergy and is probably the best overall (imo). Your success in grabbing at least one oil however is crucial. The build order is relatively stable however your lack of cash flow at the very start can leave you vulnerable to a large/fast gat th. It is very effective against a middle supply b0 as you can pressure them heavily early on vastly reducing their cash flow.
Im not going to go thru the build order instead plz just watch one (or several) of the replays. I appologise if any of these are not of the correct build order.
Dual Middle Tunnel One base tunnel, Dual Supply
A very effective stratergy that relies on you maintaining a presence in the middle of the map. It is particuarly effective (if you can get ur tunnels up) against a middle supply stratergy. You need to stop the china from spamming straight through the middle and use this time to build tunnels in your base. The stratergy gives you plenty of scope to be agressive if that is required. This build order is however weak against a flank wf and can be troublesome vs a wf/af combo. The main points for this build order is to be as agressive as possible and try to hold your position in the middle. If you loose one flank tunnel you need to ensure you defend against any gats/flamers that may come that way with a scorpian.
Dual Supply Dual Oil Grab.
This can be done either as shown below or by tweaking the placement of your tunnels to mirror that of the stratergy shown above. The advantage of that is that you can pressure your opponent more easily however you may find you loose one oil doing so (and are more likely to loose both in a disaster situation). This build order is very risky and leaves your workers quite vulnerable. I only normally use it from the top spot as i can protect my workers better there by placing my supply as shown in the replay. You may be under the kosh early on using this stratergy however once you reach mid game with the cash boost of the oils and 2 supplys you will be in a very strong position.
I realise that the build order is only the start of the struggle and when i get the time i will produce a set of tips that can be used in certain situations to your advantage. Hope you found this useful. I will give some general tips on adaption in the next article however you will need to remember that you need to adapt in different ways with different build orders. Practice and experience is the key.
This post has been edited by BiohazarD: Jun 25 2007, 20:09 PM
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