Company of Heroes

Discussion for The Psychology of CoH: A Poker Player's Insight by pingtoft.

This post has been edited by pingtoft: Mar 21 2009, 15:13 PM

Damn, nice post. We need more articles of this quality.

Nice article, however, I have to disagree with your comment about competition being natural. There isn't a shred of evidence to support this. For more on this topic I suggest you read "No Conflict" by Alfie Kohn. I have also attached an article from the same author that addresses the questions: Are Humans Innately Aggressive? The answer is NO.


This post has been edited by BoH: Mar 21 2009, 05:47 AM

Nicely written, very upbeat, very helpful.

Gratz!

Definitely one of the best articles I've read on Gamereplays, and that's saying a lot since I've read some pretty good ones here.

I think you really hit on the reasons that keep many of us playing. The highs and lows of are some of the most intensive I have ever felt playing a game. While we might not always be willing to admit it to ourselves, reading this article really made me introspect on just how intense these emotions can get at times. It was also nice to know that I'm not alone in feeling them.

This post has been edited by Slovko: Mar 21 2009, 06:37 AM

First I wanted to discuss this claim. While their may be not scientific evidence, their is tons of historical evidence that competition is in our blood. War, Olympics, WCG, so forth. Now I am not saying the writers claim is true, but simply your claim that there isn't a shred of evidence is false.

Anyway moving on.

Great article. Its good to get things like this out there and in article form. I have always seen the threshold of misery in my opponents, friends and my self. and not only in Company of Heroes but in other games as well. Especially CS, if a team is losing then every strat becomes rush and dont stop.


and for shizzle to the post above.

This post has been edited by GodWin: Mar 21 2009, 06:57 AM

Really enjoyed your article, would love to see it expanded in the future as well.

I studied psych at uni and notice things time and time again in the behavior of COH players.

It's common behaviour for humans to blame others (or something other than themselves for their mistakes). Its a defense mechanism of sorts to protect an individuals confidence. COH players do it all the time, they reach that point of misery, and instead of finding some sort of balance, they blame OP units and quit or go on an abusive rampage. controlling this im sure could make many players better (or at least more plesant to be around)

People often make assaults in certain routes and if sucessful or partially suceesful they tend to repeat this assault route. If they fail and lose alot, they often assault differently the next time using a different route.

Similarly, i often find that if people have lost alot to a type of unit, that will massively alter their decision making later on. to illustrate, say vet 2 flamers have burnt a brit players hq to the ground earlier on, its all too common for that player to focus fire on flamers in situations where the flamers are alot less of a threat. say, such as a Cromwell targeting flamers instead of a nearby shreck squad.



I think that's a bit harsh BOH, plus i dont think the point of the article was to really to analyse whether competitiveness is natural. Whether it's natural or not is really irrelevant. Fact is, competition is extremely common amongst all societies, and it must play a big part in GR community because most of us play alot of ranked games (as opposed to vs comp where the competition is, well, lower) and I have never met a player that didnt want to win their match.

It doesn't matter that humans are not innately aggressive. What matters is that in their development they become aggressive and competitive and history of mankind supports this... you support this by playing a game which is about aggression and competition:P

Great read, thanks so much for writing the article

Nice Article, Ping.

I see you are indeed a poker player since you describe CoH much like a poker game in which you see what your opponent does, construct a situation with probabilities out of it and act accordingly. We all know those situations where you chances are in your favor and you still loose because he just found the last card for his straight on the river ...

I totally agree that decisions are important in CoH. But I think you have a little more influence on the result of that decision than you might have in poker. I think the main thing to change the results of a "bad" decision is micro. A good player can pull himself out of a critical situation with uber micro skills. Perhaps he overruns the guy who was about to throw that stikie? Or he blocks the rifles with his ketten he has nearby preventing them to get close enough? This is only a small chance to get out of such a situation though. In most cases the macro and the luck (or universe) is still way more important, just like you described very accurately. I just thought you might want to add the small exceptions to this rule.

And what about reducing the risks before binding your resources to upgrades? Isnt that a skill, too? I could always argue that its your mistake that you didnt do enough to reduce the risks. But on the other hand, reducing the risks isnt always cost effective. So I think sooner or later you get to a point where you have to take a residual risk and that can of course always go in your opponents favor. But I dont think you have to do all-in decisions in CoH like you have to in poker sometimes. Your opponent cannot force you to rush his AT gun without support while he can do such a thing in poker when he just raises every bet you make and goes all-in in the last bet. You go out, you loose much money and all chances to win. You wait a little with your rush and you dont loose much chance to make a successful rush and still can win the game.

I read the article again and see risk management is not really your point. You say that everyone should think about the state of mind they are in while playing. I totally agree with that, and I have to add that while in Poker you can say that you did everything right and still lost, in CoH you have always things you could have done better. And by that I dont mean decisions but execution of them. Thus, it could be helpful to look back at a situation and think about what you did to execute your decisions. If you do it by asking yourself what you could have done better you are less likely to reach the state of misery, since you are not trying to blame others or the universe (e.g. balance) for your wrong decision or your wrong execution.

Very good structured and well written article

This game for me is about problem solving and competetion. I love it. Good artical.

Interesting article.

While aggression is definetely a factor in any competition I do not equate the need to compete with violent aggression, ie. the desire to inflict pain on someone else.

However, competition is a part of any hierachical social structure, eg. lions, gorillas, manatee, etc, which at least suggests it's instinctive and therefore genetic.

True, the decision making process goes on continuously as you gather more information, but unfortunately in this example there were neither grens nor a ket close enough to intervene.
The rule is to always make the best decision you can (which includes planning ahead) based on all the information you have. I cannot come up with an exception where it would be correct to do otherwise.


Yup, risk management (reduction of overall risk) is technique, not psychology.
The variance or randomness is smaller in CoH but there are still games that are decided by random events like the tank that slips away after 10 consecutive 5% bugs.
Apart from that you are absolutely correct that mistakes lose for more games than this and it's always a good idea to analyse the games you lose (when you have cooled down ).

The page you've requested does not exist !.

fixed.

edited URL in OP.

Good job, I enjoyed reading it!

"To me, Company of Heroes is more than just a game, it's a hobby and a passion and although I will probably never see my name next to a shiny level 20 badge, it's not going to stop me from trying to win every game I am in. It doesn't make me richer or a better person, I just love the satisfaction I get from a game well played."

Amen

Very true, good read. As a tennis player I see this all the time. A shot goes out by two inches, or there is a bad line call, and then the player goes crazy, aims for that line, and rages when he misses. Great article, For CoH, poker, and everything else.

Truly interesting. Thanks for posting bro!