Battle for Middle Earth

k, here are some tips

How to evade palantired wargs

how to creep with soldiers
How to creep with knights


Also there are made several qm guides for gondor

From our first game in gondor vs isen I could see that we need to work on both micro as strategies.
Early game you played ok, but you could have done more damage with your soldiers. In this topic is a good picture of using your starting soldiers. Try to get your soldiers to the mill so they can't be attacked from the back.

Pls post some replays of u playing against good opponents and then losing, so I can get more of an idea where you do things wrong.

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 9 2007, 16:21 PM

I bless this topic.
Nobody but Axcell and Andioz are allowed to respond here (except for this post). If they do their posts will be deleted asap.
GL.

me gondor vs rohan

Ok, I watched your game.

You had a good start, you interupted in his creeping early and got Gandalf out quickly,
However I have severeal pointers for you about this game.

Early game
- Respawn Pippin if he dies in early game, you already had him leveled and he's great to interrupt rohan's creeping, since he owns a rohirrim in 2 rock throws. Always try to move him in sight of a creep when his first rohirrim enter the battlefield.
- I think it's better to get the wel after your second knight since it isn't common your fisrt knight is already badly wounded before you have your second knight.
- Don't get the GtW PP before he's on the field. When you have bought that power it takes longer to get Gandalf build, about 15 seconds I thought.
- At a certain point when almost all creeps where taken you retreated to you castle and stayed there with al your knights for about half a minute, maybe you had something to do, but never give the opponent a break.

Midgame
- Midgame you started to lose MC because you didn't split knight up at pointa and let them all be chased by theoden and 1 rohirrim bat.
They can only chase 1 knight bat if you split them up. ANd never fight them, it's just exp for Theoden. FU knight>FU rohirrim. by splitting up knights you can gain advantages at some places.
- You deleted your well for a BS in your base. Rather destroy your farms for BS after Gandalf.
- You made OP's too early. You had to guard your OP's(Outpost) resulting into lossing MC and when you abandoned your OP's they destroyed it. Just make an OP when you're about to siege from there.
- It hasn't much use to keep IL THeoden when he's near his own base at full health. You don't gain exp with that.
- Stoneworker, rather get combo's, trebuchets and heroes earlier, stoneworker should be the last thing you buy. Stoneworker is the dark side of Gondor, pls turn to the light. Stoneworker goives them time to build up there army and gain MC and a well timed enmoot can also break sotnewrker strat.
- Don't get lay down Ew to late in the game. It is easily overwrited and don't keep using it when he already has land!

Lategame
- Rohirrim with shields and THeoden LD don't die from Wizard Blast.
- Legolas doesn't die from IL when at lvl 1
- Always wait for GC to wear of, force him to use it and the retreat.


Overal tips.
Get brothers when you have combo's. They lvl up easy and especially Faramir in combination with Gandalf is a great thread for Theoden. Theoden is always your first target when not under GC. I usually wait for trebs before engaging Rohan when he has already a great army.


Final comments.
You are a better player than I thought you would be by seeing this replay. If you really want to be a good qm player you'll be top 50 in no time.(at least if you spam qm's).




For the next times
Keep posting some replays.
Try to play micro intensive strats (strats with much knight micro in it) because that will improve your micro.
Next time we'll discuss gondor rohan further, after that we start with:

gondor mordor -> gondor mirror -> gondor isen

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 10 2007, 13:27 PM

i agree in every thing you wrote... t y for your final comments =) i agree there to

more replays wll come.... and if you wanna you can ask some of your pro-friends to look at them to and see what they think !

Since you mostly want to become a very good qm player I give you some replays to watch. For Gondor there already qm guides with replays, but I haven't seen those replays so I can't judge wheter the replay is good or not. I don't play much qm but I try to play some as gondor. I deleted many replays a while ago so I don't have many good ones atm.

This is vs a decent qm'er. This shows fast Gandalf vs fast entmoot on this map. You can also go for fast ups and the Faramir on this map. I had a good replay of that but i forgot to save it.

	gondorvsrohanoneasternrohan.rep.rep
	Size: 50.72k
	Number of downloads: 55
	Player Name	Side	Team
	[EFF]DarkWillow		1
	Entraxz*		2

We haven't discussed gondor mordor yet, but this is a replay on fangron forest. one of the best maps for mordor. It shows how good early harassing, and agressive play with knights can win you this befre he gets an uber army.

	gondorvsmordoronfangorn.rep.rep
	Size: 52.14k
	Number of downloads: 57
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Entraxz*		1
	jiho		2

As for Gondor rohan watch some replays for foi, like this one, after that you'll play me or some good qm'er. Post that replay and tell which mistakes you think you made and what you should have done, I will comment on that. When you feel you have learned enough about this matchup(after a couple of days) we continue to gondor mordor.

If you think you should learn to play gondor through other ways pls tell me and I will decide whether I think it's a good idea or not.

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 11 2007, 16:35 PM

hi... i still have huge problems vs theoden 4 and aragorn after. i always control the start so much that i get angry but then i loose vs his 2 AoD and i dont find anythiunggood vs aragorn!

After watching your second replay i have to say this:
It was a good opponent he knew how to get GC, you seemed to have imrproved from the last replay that's a positive, but still I think you need to play 1 extra game in this mu before going to the next mu.

My review:

Early game
- Early game You claimed farms with one soldier and harassed with the other while going Pippin to creep. I mostly get Pippin + one soldier to creep the goblin liars together right under the castle when on topspot. that way you got ranked soldiers and Pippin(let soldier get last hit and Pippin stay nearby them. There are many creeps on this map. I rather get them first vs rohan, those creeps also give money when destroyed, so I don't have to worry about having not such a strong econ. Against rohan or Gondor you can crep on big maps at the start, vs FoD I wouldn't recommend it.

-You then started to creep realtively fast with horses. On this map going Faramir or using the trick with knights to creep troll might have come in handy. You got GtW power halfway while building him, get it once he is made not before, though you made a little improvement. In the game you might have watched, me on eastern rohan not getting that GtW power, before gandalf had appeared is what saved me.

On this big map it isn't needed to respawn Pippin btw. but he's always a great support unit when they have no ups yet, so keep him alive early.

Midgame
You started to get an OP with a workshop and guarded it with several knights + gandy + brothers ( good you got the brothers). I have a few notes on this.

- Get knights in front of trebs, it will be hard for the rohirrim to reach them and let the knights stay under LD. Use WB also to keep them at bay. He had no archers so there's no need to retreat a wounded gandy too far, to let he knights stay under LD.

- Theoden is your primary target not Aragorn. WHen he had no anduril and no BM IL him. Otherwise focus on theoden. he;'s the easiest tink to kill. WHen GC wears of IL + WA, if timed well he cannot heal himself. Aragorn is the last thing that you should attack.
surround him with knights under LD + use Gandalf LS.

- You had loads of spare money becuase you got OP's (good thing) spend it on market and combo's. You had all the LD so that would make you undefeatable.

- while sieging you totally forgot about the map. He still had 3 settlements + an OP with 3 farms.

- Keep Gandalf away from Aragorn and don't use him in battles where you have to use heal, try to escape without heal as mcuh as possible. Save it for more important battles.Know that Gandalf takes a while to move again after using a spell.

Lategame
- Use eagles as qick as possible he had no archers, first target + Thedoen, then Aragorn. attack together with your army. If he''s in his base destroy citadel aafter Theoden and well.

- He had his base with no troops and a broken wall twice after loosing his army and yet you didn't send your knights in. Just send one knight in 2 check if there's really nothing. Destroy citadel asap. You can always retreat since he has no archers, your only fear is him rebuilding his wall, but then again you have trebs.

- You gave up, stilll you could have won this one, he had no archers so Eagles we're far OP.

Final Comments
You have improved, I noticed it. You split up your knights early, you didn't use EW mid-lategame, though you could have used it once. he had not enough PP's, to few creeps.

For the next time
give another good replay where you play vs a good qm'er or you can play vs tomorrow ( not sure)

Next replay tell me what you think you did wrong, last time you didn't. I also commment on that.
You get to be a very good player if you not only learn from others but also criticize yourself and know where your mistakes are made.


Till next time, Axcell

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 13 2007, 16:24 PM

ok, good that you told me the kill-order theo-troops-ara i´ll keep playing...

he said this during the whole game lol- it doesnt matter how you do couse i know thing to do that makes me the winner however you do... i answer- you mean cheat then? - he: nope but lets say i know something good in the game against you!- i said- well im not very impressed so far... he said: well im going to win anyhow so you just leave?... well... tak e lokk yourself =)

oopps... forgot the replay...

What happened?

Cause this guy disconnected on me once.

Report him if he cheated again and he'll be banned/kicked for sure.

If some people try to d/c make a screenshot by using f12 or some hotkey you set in for your xfire, when is on about 10%.
That way you can report him if you got win/loss bug. Post the replay in the bfme cheaters and dc forum and post the screenshot of him disconnecting in the next post. That way he'll be banned on the qm ladder.

Since we're still in the gondor rohan matchup I will make some short comments about the replay.

Good early gameplay, though I have to say the isen was pretty noob.
You got elves after EW and you used a BO prettty much like mine at times.

Pointers
the whole idea of the hs rush is to rush him when you have HS. Creeping those 2 cave trolls just gave him extra time and you don't always need the elves PP for HS rushing. You'll get PP anyways if he doesn't destroy his buildings in time. An early HS rush would have been fatal. Just save those trolls for Faramir or Boromir.

Though you managed to keep all your knights alive i wasn't really impressed by their micro in the hs rush. Also use ELves in combination with the rush to kill pikes. You would have been able to finish it then.

For the next time
Just gimme a last good replay of gondor vs rohan and we'll move on to gondor mordor. Don't forgot to mention your own mistakes and things you should have done. You are learning fast, but pls listen to what I have to say at times. It only saves us time.

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 13 2007, 22:20 PM

ok i read the rewiew... here comes a new one for you. he was rank 200 on qm !

hi... here comes a gondor mirror. i won it easy in mu opinion, he is rank 300 on q m

heres the 3rd gondor vs rohan... rank 1492 on q m

OK.

What if thought about your gondor isen.


You fought him at the front, you fought his army. This map has 2 points isengard needs to guard to ensure his base safety. Pass those points and keep him on his side of the map, then you'll make him retreat to guard his base.

He went ups before pikes.

You should continue to spam knights after the first and harass him.

This map gives isen a really good econ and you cannot defeat him if you don't harass enough,
really check the replay yourself, he had no guarded settlements. Next time get only soldiers when u see or suspect he already has pikes. Soldiers are to slow for this big map. that's why knights are so important on this map.
YOu cannot defeat isen on big maps just by force at the front, u mainly need to harass and then HS rush the shit out of him. Get Faramir and Boromir for the trolls then, they will be free since he's to busy on your knights.
In this mu I always think that the gondor always needs to outmicro isen, meaning you have to have better micro them him making him loose battles at several places. Like when your HS rushing also making soldiers that go harass and kill his pikes were he's not paying attention on.


I also am gonna take a look at the gondor mirror replay, but I aint looking at the rohan vs gondor unless you tell me what you think you did wrong, I asked it several times, You don't only learn when I make comments about your gameplay, you also need to know what you're doing wrong yourself.

hello... i won the gondor vs rohan, so i cant really say that in did wrong hehehe.

and about the isen. i too ka look at it. and what i did wrong is that i only attacked his outpost with my knights and not his camp...`right?

i would advise you to look at the gondor mirror. its probably the best game i ever played!

Ok I took a look at your Gondor mirror.

DT|Shadow is supposed to be a very good player, so beating him is a very good accomplishment even if it was on your host.

Early Game
Early game you played very well, killing his soldiers and pippin and creeping the top warg liar, risky but a huge advatage if it works.
Though I rather go one extra farm before getting stable, you could see on your opponent what a difference it made in econ.

You managed to get all warg liars and got very fast ups. I think it's wise to get some moere econ buildings inside ( not 2 ) before getting those. He managed to keep us because of your weak econ.

You harassed good early till midgame. But you retreated your knights sometimes unneeded. I would say that a lvl'ed Knight > lvl 1 HA knight, I'd say(correct me if I'm wrong). Fight them not in formation you'll need the defence in a knight vs knight battle.
25% defence>25% attack

You got all ups earlier then he did. I would advice you when you have got more MC then him to keep chasing his knights and wait at him near his castle. Your knights were lvl'ed and stronger. Another way is get anoher knight when u have all ups and get full MC with that if done good.

Again you got GTw power before he was build

Midgame

You got an OP and planned to make combo's from there. It could have worked but after they got attcked you decided not to, no biggie and you just used the oP as a restpoint. Remember to keep at leat 1 knight preferably 2 continue to harass, I think You noticed it yourself that he got full MC when you just sat there, that way you could have never won a siege, but since he was lame and made SW and Market first he had no army that would definately pwn you.

You made trebs and combo's in your base. Getting COmbo's in base I agree with, but on this map I rather get Trebuchets at the OP, so they don't have to travel such a long distance. Make sure your combo's are also protected during the travel to your OP. He didn't have gandy yet but if he had.............

Very nice of you to hide Faramir in the trees, I love that trickalso , almost perfect timing of IL + WA on Gandalf

You can't always kill his Gandalf also check his Faramir, he had an low lvl'ed one and he can be KO in one IL.

Also make sure he has no outside farms, there were 2 places were he had outisede farms and 1 empty spot.

Lategame
The siege is mostly about the one having the most trebs, you're opponent fortunately was a little overcomforted about himself and heavily underestimated you.

Don't aim for the towers with trebs, but for the walls where they are at. Good players just delete there towers before you can destroy them, it's wasting your time.

You had loads of money, get double workshop to make sure you have the most trebs.

You could have used aotd on his base, he can't kill it so he gets no PP from it, don't be afraid to use it when has nothing left.


Final comments
Very good play. In this matchup you pretty much know the basics and the advanced. Though there are still some pointers for you to work on.

If you got time watch these 2 replays.

gold replay between urza and thug.

silver replay on eastern rohan 2 of the best gondor players in it from my opinion.

For the next time

k, tommorow I'll prolly check your third gondor vs rohan replay, make sure you check your other replay and we'll head on to gondor mordor. Tell me how you want to learn that mu since you don't come across many mordor players these days. You did download my mordor gondor replay?

Also for other replays you will post, tell me what you think u should work on.

This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 17 2007, 23:10 PM

OK, I wathed your 3rd replay in gondor vs rohan and I think we're finished in this mu. He wasn't really a good test tbh, but those test will come. If you still got questions or replays that you need to show me you can do.

We already played 1 gondor mordor game.
Gondor mordor should mostly be won by Gondor if they do it right.

I got some pointers about that game:

Early game:
If you use EW when mordor uses Eye lay it down near his mill. The whole point is to damage mordor's econ, not to keep his orcs busy.

Keep mordor's mills down. He needs a good econ for later, to withstand gondor's attacks.

Get 3 farms iniside, not 2, before stable

If you're not planning on HS rushing don't get HS yet.

Midgame:
If you're planning to make archers after knights and attack with combo's/archers try to save a warg creep for Boromir to get him lvl 4 for is LD.

Keep harassing with knights and HS rushing, trolls can't catch them, only nagzul.

If you got 1 knight left and don't have full MC get stablr again for 1,2 extra knights.

Keep demolshing farms before turning red, Mordor must not get Darkness.

You got GTW power again before you got Gandalf

Lategame:
spread army and trebs out, otherwise trolls take them out in 2 sec and WK kills 7 trebs in 2 sweeps.



You didn't do that bad, I would be surprised if you would have managed to win the first time. Btw I also saw some good stuff in our game, like your creeping, getting the furhtest creeps first.

What I want you to do is to read the:
gondor vs mordor masterguide
Gandalf laming guide
fastened HS rush

I also got some questions for you:

1. do you know how to take out haradrim with knights?
2. Did you watch my gondor vs mordor replay?


Furthermore I want you to watch some good gondor vs mordor replays, cus there are many strats for this mu.


This post has been edited by Axcell: Feb 21 2007, 19:12 PM