Battle for Middle Earth

This topic is for BcVcB and Pure Anarchy`only.

Ok, let's get things started I'll teach you Gondor for 1vs1. Are you only interested in Fords of Isen or do you want help on all QM maps?

Do you have xfire/msn? My xfire is bcvcb and my msn is [email protected].
The in-game nicks I use atm are CWnub|BcVcB and Morojelle{0}, so add me whenever you see me in chat.

Post any replays you have in this topic and I'll look into them.

If you want me to upload a replay of a certain match-up on a certain map, just say so. I have replays of good Gondors in nearly any match-up/map/spot in my replay library.

Ask questions as much as you want in this topic. We'll also play some games if you want to.

How good is your Gondor in 1vs1 actually? Do you play QM so you can tell me your rank on the ladder?

Edit: Ok, I saw you already said in the topic what your xfire is, I just sent you an invitation.

This post has been edited by BcVcB: Jun 15 2008, 19:21 PM

First of all, why is there a space in my name?

I would like to learn as many maps as possible, but we can focus on fords.

I would also like to see a good reply against all armies, to see how you handle them. (just one replay)

I really need help on my early game, like the passage ways for starting units and such.

My gondor isn't very good, qm rank is around 1000

Fixed



Here's one replay vs each army on any map:
Gondor mirror, I was offhost, so AloneLord was ahead in the beginning and got gandy first but I turned the game and won in the end:

	gvsG_FoI_AloneLordVsBcVcB.rep
	Size: 156.52k
	Number of downloads: 86
	Player Name	Side	Team
	TR|SharK|		0
	CWnub|BcVcB*		0

This is a QM vs matas on the map Dunharrow.

	rvsG_Dunharrow_matasVsBcVcB.rep
	Size: 138.47k
	Number of downloads: 65
	Player Name	Side	Team
	^1SHT4R1_L1GHT^		1
	BcVcB*		2

vs Gerrard's Isen:

	Gvsi_FoI_BcVcBVsGerrard.rep
	Size: 90.81k
	Number of downloads: 73
	Player Name	Side	Team
	CWnub|BcVcB*		0
	WhosTheSmuRf		0

A tourney match vs Andioz. He was a bit unlucky some times iirc:

	Gvsm_WestEmnet_BcVcBVsAndioz.rep
	Size: 60.45k
	Number of downloads: 68
	Player Name	Side	Team
	BcVcB*		0
	Limies		0

If you want more replays (on other maps or with more late game, the Gondor vs FoD's were finished before late game already), tell me.



You find good pathways vs Gondor on all 1vs1 QM mapshere. You can use the exact same pathways vs Rohan.

Vs Mordor and Isen on Fords of Isen I always send both my starting soldiers straight to my opponent's furthest mill (the top right mill if I start from left, the bottom left mill if I start from right) and try to kill that farm. I build 3 resource buildings inside my base before any outside farms, so I send Pippin to take my furthest farm first, then my closest farm. Afterwards Pippin goes to one of my opponent's mills to kill a few labourers or vs Mordor I also like sending him into their base and cloak him. When Mordor wants to make a building in their base, I throw a rock at it with Pippin immediately. If there's no lag, you'll either hit it at 0% and destroy it so your opponent wasted the money on nothing or he demolishes it before the rock hits the building and gets the money back, but this forces him to cashfloat which is a pain in the ass for Mordor early game.
If you play against Isen and want to get Upgrades and no Soldiers before Gandalf (which I prefer), one of the 3 economy buildings inside your base at the start should be a Blacksmith so you can get Upgrades early enough.

I'd like to know whether you know how to
- wallcheck
- kill pikes with horses
- escape from wargs with your horses even if his wargs have the speed bonus of palantir

If you don't know anything of this, I'll explain it, but I ask first so I don't tell you things that you already know

I know how to wall check, and I guess killing pikes is using "s"? And do you escape with your horses by zig-zaging?

Thanks for the reps, I'll take a look at them now, and I'll ask some questions after watching them.

Btw, against mordor, do you go straight to Gandy after knights and before ups?

Yes, that's it. When fighting pikes make sure you order your knights to attack them directly after clicking "S". Otherwise the Isen player can just tell his pikes to run away and your horses stand still. If they run away from your horses AFTER you already attacked them, your horses will match their speed and kill them while they run away.



Usually yes. But if I get the PPs for Elves early enough and he doesn't have many trolls yet, I'd try to defeat him with a Elves rush on his base and get Gandy after ups (if I haven't won by then). Horse Shields are required for a base rush and Blades will also help a lot when base rushing but aren't essential. If it looks good, you can also get armor after blades.

When pikes are running away in formation, can they match their speed also, because whenever I try to do this, they just try to run through them and die.

If you could find me a rep of late game against isen (combos, wargs, ballistas, saru, and lurtz) that would be great, because I am kind of lost when or if I get to that point. Why did gerr quit in that game lol?

They can, but even on host it's extremely difficult because your timing must be 100% right. If you click S a decisecond too late you'll run into them and lose some knights of the battalion, if you click S a decisecond too early your horses will run into them after you told them to attack the pikes. In other words: I don't recommend doing this.
But if you were already meleeing them and the Isen player retreats the pikes during the battle, your knights will match their slow speed automatically.



The key in late game vs Isen are Trebs and Eagles. Trebs are great against combos, Eagles take care of Saru and Lurtz. Your knights micro around his pikes and kill the ballistas, Gandy serves Leadership and when he's save from Lurtz's cripple he uses his spells. I also make soldiers and TGs. They are a meat shield, the TGs protect trebs against wargs and soldiers are good vs pikes.

Here's a replay of that MU with a long late game between Butta and Sjosty:

	Gvsi_FoI_ButtaVsSjosty2.rep
	Size: 285.18k
	Number of downloads: 76
	Player Name	Side	Team
	[eXp]Alex`TG		0
	FoD}Sjosty*		0

Because he would have lost 2 minutes later. He didn't keep playing until the very last second because his decimated army wouldn't have been able to defend the base against my 3 fairly well ranked horses and Gandy.

ok, what do I do against this?

	00000000.rep
	Size: 58.23k
	Number of downloads: 68
	Player Name	Side	Team
	N3D3RL4ND|IS3N		1
	PureAnarchy*		2

I had a look at the replay:

You lost your bottom farm only because Pippin arrived there too late to defend it because you sent him to the left middle farm before. If one of your soldiers from the wood had taken that left middle farm instead of Pippin, you could have defended with Pippin earlier.
Isen can do these 2 things now:
1. The uruk near the wood follow your soldiers and also go to the left middle farm
----> in this case you just send your other soldier from the wood straight to Isen's closest mill and destroy it.
2. The uruks that killed your bottom farm in the replay attack Pippin instead because killing the bottom farm wouldn't be possible if Pippin defends it earlier.
----> Throw a few rocks at the uruks. Offhost you won't be able to kill the complete uruk batt, in that case just escape into the tower near the left middle farm.

Btw, there's no point in demolishing a farm a second before it gets destroyed. The amount of money you get for demolishing the farm is not what is displayed (+100). The money you get depends on the health of the building you destroy. If you demolish a building at full health you get the full amount of money displayed (in case of a farm that's 100), if you demolish it at 50% health you only get 50% of the money displayed, if you demolish it at 1% you get 1% of the money displayed etc. That's why it's pointless to demolish a building at 1%

You were very lucky killing his top mill. If he had repaired it with a few labourers, he wouldn't have lost it. That's why I wouldn't have left the land to try and kill his mill, moreover all your soldiers were dead afterwards which gave him enough time before horses to get complete MC. If you had kept the soldiers on your land they wouldn't have died and you wouldn't have lost MC early game. Losing MC early game was the main reason for losing the game.

ALWAYS put horses in line formation when fighting against pikes. In line formation they are stronger than in wedge formation. There were some more microing mistakes, but probably due to lag.

Btw, is there anything you can do against xbows when pippin isn't around?

If I had kept my soldiers on the land, I would have kept 1 farm while he got to keep his mill, and I thought a mill was more important to isen than a farm was to gondor.

Soldiers can't kill xbows on their own. But on some maps you can put them into a tower so they won't die. They also take ages to die on EW in block formation, so when doing this you're wasting the Isen's time as he can't use his xbows for anything else as long as they are attacking your soldiers.



Yes, a mill is more important for Isen than a farm for Gondor. But you would usually not have managed to kill the top farm ín the replay if 1-2 labourers had repaired it. Moreover you would probably have been able to keep all 3 of your farms if your soldiers had survived and the Isen wouldn't have had the time to creep as undisturbed before horses as he could in the replay if they are still soldiers around.

Gen said we shall replays between us in this topic I don't have the replays of the ca. 4 games we played the other days any more, but here's the replay of our match today. You said it might not work on your host or so, that's why I hosted

	Mvsg_FoI_BcVcBVsPureAnarchy.rep
	Size: 89.44k
	Number of downloads: 67
	Player Name	Side	Team
	CWnub|BcVcB*		0
	PureAnarchy		0

• I prefer starting with 3 farms instead of 2 farms + BS vs mordor because I want faster horses and get Blades and Armor after gtw usually
• When fighting soldiers vs Orcs + Gollum, make sure your soldiers attack the orcs and not Gollum because Orcs die a lot sooner than Gollum. You used heal WAY too late. It was very good to fight near the rock because only a few orcs could attack your soldiers because of that, not sure whether you did that on purpose but it was good.
• set a waypoint from your stables to in front of your gate so the knights leave your castle immediately (select the building and right click on front of your castle)
• Get more economy buildings before your 3rd Knight or your economy is too weak.
• You didn't watch your knights that crept the top left lair and had to waste a heal because of that Don't attack the lair before the wargs are dead
• Don't attack my base with unupgraded knights when I have towers. Yes, you managed to kill my cage, but you lost 2 knight in return and the other knight was very injured. If the troll had come out of the attacked cage earlier, you wouldn't even have managed to kill the cage. Keep in mind that knights are slowed down when running through orcs, that's why some Knights couldn't escape in time.
• You could have killed my naz 2 times if you had istaried it with gtw. Maybe it was because of lag

Ok, here's a rep showing that rushing rohan's base can deal a lot of damage with starting soldiers. (I managed to get two farms down) He may have left at the end of the game, but just watch the early game.

	00000027.rep
	Size: 33.93k
	Number of downloads: 68
	Player Name	Side	Team
	MIZZOURI*		1
	RoLfArAgSoFt		2

Yes, if you manage to enter his base with 2 soldiers you should go for it, but good players will close their gate in time. Oh btw, you shouldn't attack farms with Pippin alone, it takes years until they are down. Better creep the top left goblin lair on Westfold if Pippin is bored or defend your farms vs peasants.

Yea, I forgot about the goblin lair, but I was bored and Pip was the only thing close.

It's been a wonderful time having you as my mentor, I feel much more confident in qm now. (got my first 10 game winning streak )

I will definetly miss you. (I hope that doesn't sound creepy. lol)
:_(

10 game win streak is pretty nice, congratz. I'm glad that I could help you a bit.
It doesn't sound creepy, it's nice that you say that