The Asian Dynasties

Here's our newest ROTW, one of the best 2v2 games thus far, a very good watch .

Official review written by Justhere82:


Moony
The Pros:
+Good early military production as you had 10 Skirms, 6 Natives, and 8 Pikes. Using your early proficiency you were able to successfully overcome a powerful rush.
+Great team work to defend against the Native rush as you nearly prevented Scoobings TC from falling early in the game.
+Nice micromanagement of all you military units. Unfortunately wherever you went your Falconets always seemed to be meeting their fate to Pip’s Abus Gun.
+Very good team scouting as you managed to uncover the entire map allowing you to anticipate key economic positions.

The Cons:
-Your Falconets got wasted by Pip’s Abus Guns. I should probably say slaughtered since he managed to kill 6 Falconets with 12 Abus Guns without losing a unit.
-Your economy was never harassed, but you were never able to get to your 50 settler pop cap.

Scoobings
The Pros:
+Great FF time though it brought about the destruction of you original base as you were unable to produce the military you needed to protect it.
+Your mercenary shipment of Black Riders came at just the right time allowing to you to counter-attack Janizary and siege his base. Coupled with Swiss Pikemen you were able to wipe out one of your opponent’s bases.
+Great job working in tangent with your partner to siege both of your enemy’s bases.
+Great use of your HC shipments to keep your military up while your economy recovered from the early rush.
+You managed to rebuild your TC after 6 minutes allowing you to better supplement Moony’s army. You could have gotten it back up sooner if you used HC shipments, but those you were using to send in mercs and military units.
+Good job adapting to their cavalry army and using Dragoons.

The Cons:
-You had an excess of wood production the entire game even creating unneeded TCs with a resource you had too much of throughout the game.
-You were not able to build your military up enough to aide Moony in overcoming the cavalry strong army. It is most likely in comparison to Pip that you seem less efficient, but this is largely credited to the early rush as you were able to provide HC shipments to fight along side your partner.

Team Assessment: 9 out of 10


Pip
The Pros:
+ Fastest Colonial time out of the group which clearly shows you proficiency in your civ. This brought about your early Jans and Natives.
+Nice job working with Janizary to rush Scoobing and take down his TC by the 10:30 mark. This would have been more crippling if he had not successfully FF.
+Very effective forward building, which allowed you to pressure earlier and replenish your troops in Scoobings base a lot quicker.
+You tributed 1000 Gold to your partner allowing him to get out some Jaegers to try and stop his TC from falling. It didn’t help greatly, but it was a great moment of team work; however, this inevitably prevented you from reaching the Fortress Age.
+Great micromanagement of your units, which even while producing only one unit allowed you to maximize your efficiency.

The Cons:
-You never reach the Fortress Age.
-You did not rebuild your TC to recover economically until the 30 minute mark. Perhaps a wood shipment from Janizary used by your peons could have aided you in a quicker recovery.
-14 minutes without producing a peon due to not having a TC. I still cannot believe you won with such a hobbled economy.

JaNiZaRy
The Pros:
+Phenomenal Native rush made possible by the ATP card. 18 Native cavalry in the enemy base at 7:40.
+I wouldn’t be surprised if you used every merc shipment you had in your deck. Great noticeable micromanagement as you took out Scoob’s Swiss Pikemen without losing your Hackapells.
+I didn’t know Natives were so strong, but your War Wagons and Native cavalry tore through everything including anti-cavalry cavalry and anti-cavalry mercs. It was in part due to your management of the troops, but I suspect your proficiency with the game lead you to pursue this clearly effective strategy.
+You controlled the trade route and you proved that even with Germany the ATP card is unbelievable useful.
+I don’t know how but you managed to keep some Jaegers alive the entire game while every other merc in the game was dead and gone within minutes of their entrance.

The Cons:
-After the Native rush failed you were incapable of defending your Colony, but were aided militarily and financially by Pip as one would hope.

Team Assessment: 9 out of 10
Great team work throughout the game as you managed to team rush Scoobings destroying his economy and hindering his productivity. If he had not Fortressed so quickly the game would have been over for their team. Your recovery after being sieged was quite impressive as you seemed to pull a victory out of the brink of despair. On the backs of Comanche Horse Archers you ran over every unit that came at you while your Abus Guns tore up all the other military threats. Superbly played and deservingly won.

Finale: 9 out of 10
This game was incredibly action packed and strategically brilliant from both sides. The rush and counter-attack was seamless and most impressive to see the teams switch gears quickly. More unexpected than the continuous ebb and flow from offense to defense by both teams was the fact that Pip managed to remain militarily effective throughout the game while remaining in the Colonial Age. Simply put this game has everything you want to see in a replay. It has great strategy and team work by both pairs, great micromanagement of individual troops, great adaptation to the enemy’s armies, and, most important to enjoying a replay, it is highly exciting and entertaining throughout the entire game.


Enjoy watching!

ROTW?

how did it beat my rec, not that I'm complaining but imo this was abus laming to the max, nothing moony and skoobs could do so I have no clue how this beat my rec tbh. this is OP civs beating UP civs while mine is the other way around.

Analysis:

Moony and skoobs could not in anyway beat Pip and Jan due to Abus guns and commanche HA's to kill the hussars. Abus guns can easily kill a falcon which makes it more laming. Also in my game you can say there was Wagon laming but still they were upped so and in this case the abus weren't upped. My game is in my sig by the way.


Anyway congratz to Pip, Janizary, Moony and Skoobings.

EDIT: Pip didn't even reach age 3

This post has been edited by Chun-a-Lun: Jan 17 2006, 20:03 PM

*snicker* French are a UP civ? =P

You're right that this shows the OP Abus Gun in full light, but that alone is not a reason to discredit the whole replay. The gameplay was exemplary for a 1.03 team game.

R/G is UP
dual F is OP

Question, what is most effective against Abus gun?? Horses?? or maybe that siege that is good against others sieges??

This replay is definatly not worth watching. Maybe only from the view of janizary. The others are doing only boring stuff, especially Pip and Moony. Never seen someone building so many canonns without even fireing one shot when they get killed by the abus. Should have used the resources for some other army.

BTW Fully agree Chun-a-Lun

You've successfully discovered why abus guns are OP

A lot of good playing there

but there are a few things that bugged me... (constructive criticism)

Moony
-lost a TON of guys trying to dance w/slow units in his military. His halberdiers/explorer slowed his skirms/ruytes down waaay too much making them easier targets to Abus guns.
-Halberdiers should've been used for TP destruction or to finish off blue.
-I dont see anything to justify building falconettes at all in this game. The combat was way too fast and open for falcs to be effective.
-Counter-rifling is a more cost efficient method to fight abus (yeah, skirms lose to abus, but the resource gap favored moony enough so that outmassing would've been viable).
-Green's skirmisher/Jaeg army was asking for Hussars, as were Blue's abus guns. Hussars were clearly the unit to focus on mid-game yet they didn't crop up until green began massing comanches. Outmassing the opponents mid-game w/skirms could've been viable if a stables was up and rdy for ruyters.
-I saw a lot of poor military choices, aside from falcs and building all the wrong units- IE focusing on blue's outpost while yellow attacked green was kinda silly, green could've suffered much more from a larger military.
-Villager Idling was terrible.
-Poor scouting, many opportunities to win were available if the proper information could've been found.

I disagree w/the reviewer though, your Settler count wasn't terrible when you consider the couple banks, though a few more setts would've helped.

PiP
-You're fighting a Dutch player and a French player, why was a barracks even built in the beggining? Siege foundry should've been the first choice- with early abus and green's calvary the game would've been over very soon.
-Terrible economy, but then again you dont need an economy to mass abus.... (nice w/tributes tho)

Janizary
-Nice massed calvary, but defenseless until 7:00? Just a lil' fewer TPs + a faster age might've swung an early win- IDK though.
-Ran away from too many easily won battles, resulting in lots of extra damage taken.

Skoobings
-An otto/germ rush (if they did rush, which they didn't) shouldn't be counterable w/an 8 minute FF.

Lots of fun to watch and a good match between the players.

Then howd it beat my rec.

Infantry does not counter counter-infantry. If you would like to post a demo of 30 muskets beating 5 falconets I would surely like to see it.

Falconets should counter Abus Guns because they are light infantry. The only other option Moony had was to amass cav, but since JaNiZaRy was all counter-cav that was about as bad an idea as trying to counter counter-infantry with infantry.

This post has been edited by Justhere82: Jan 19 2006, 00:53 AM

Abus is actually artillery not light inf.

Abus guns rock falcs, period (that .75 resist on falcs doesn't apply to abus damage). There isn't any way to justify the use of falcs against abus. You'd have better luck w/counter-rifled mass skirms or calvary. Calvary was a very viable option for a long stretch of the match, specifically when Jan pulled out jaegers and pip began making (not exactly in mass) abus, jan hadn't yet begun massing Comanches until the game was pretty much already over, in which case it would've obviously been too late. If I get a chance to watch the replay again I'll be sure to post the time period in which hussars would've made a big difference.

abus are infantry right? Maybe I'm retarded and they aren't... If that's the case then make calvary and forget the following.

age 2 abus
130 hp - 50% ranged resist
40 dmg (40 vs. skirms)

Vet skirms w/counterifling
144 hp - 30% ranged resist (non-applicablE)
18x3 dmg (27 vs. abus)

130/27 5 shots for Skirms to kill an abus
144/40 4 shots for Abus to kill a skirm

The difference isn't too big- Especially since you can outmass abus w/skirms. They do have the range advantage- which means lots of skirmishers will inevitably die, but that's what massing is for. if you can manage to flank a group of abus w/ two groups of skirms the losses will be much lighter. If that flanking group is calvary, then mass abus can begin to look noobish.

This post has been edited by spinsane: Jan 19 2006, 05:02 AM

Yap, and thats why it is that boring. Not worth to be ROTW.
Don't misunderstand me, all of u are better players than me but as an ROTW I want to see some more diversity.

If you want top players playing in tourney games you'll get top players abusing top civs as much as they can. I had a Russian war with Ourk and it was completely crap in terms of competition but in terms of ROTW would've looked real nice.

I don't see how such a game where we both lose our freaking bases and manage a come back isn't worthy just because we used our civs accordingly. Maybe Dutch shouldn't use skirms because they're OP in colonial age and can win every other infantry?

IMO you guys are just whining, all of us are good players and if you want to go see some diversity get a 2v2 game with complete n00bs and see what happens. The strats may be completely different to what's normal like mass towers then fast 5th age and diverse from each other, but boy will it suck. According to you every game with something OP is lame, therefore you can take out 8 of the 11 ROTWS simply because they have something OP and therefore lame.

This post has been edited by Pip: Jan 19 2006, 10:21 AM

Sorry mate, but the Abus Gun is actually an infantry unit just like the Grenadier. We know this because the Ruyter and Culverine do not get their bonus against it. Not to mention in the xml file it is listed as infantry. Finally, they can be created from a Fort and artillery cannot be created at the fort.


I didn't say a lot of skirms would not work, I just said it to bring up that it is dumb to counter a unit with the unit it counters. Just think about that for awhile. Cav is the best most effective solution, but against Jans/Horse Archers mixed in with the Abus Guns it will not work. Using Skirms against Abus Guns is redemption for everyone that has been bump and runed by them because Abus Guns can bump and run skirms slaughtering them just like the Skirms do to most other infantry units.

I didn't say cannon does counter the Abus Gun, I said it should. They are infantry and should fall like bowling pins, but because of their range and attack they are too good against cannon considering they are suppose to only be effective against infantry. If you want to talk in strict terms you counter Abus with Hussars. If you expand the Ottoman army to Jans/Abus you counter with Hussars/Cannons. Skirms can work, but certainly is not a really wise approach.

This is what the world needs. I'm a top player and all you noobs out there are not worth playin the game. Sorry Pip but some of your statements are poor.

Sorry mo666 but your lack of comprehension of my post misled you to believe something I did not write.

I was just responding to your complaint that basically most players do not play the underpowered civs and most players who play the underpowered civs produce recs that are not of the best quality - I can say my recs as Portugese are sometimes just crap and rarely would they be OMFG WOW status.

I never said n00bs are not worth playing, I just said that n00bs recs are generally not worth watching which would be consistent with how n00bs play. This is what the world needs. More people whining and then accusing others of things without proof. Sounds a lot like the Salem witch hunt. Are you American?

Pip, people have every right to complain about the ROTW if they dont think it is worth it. Just because your game was selected ROTW does not mean your pro and can say whatever you want, i think its sad that you won that game and never got out of the colonial age. There were more mistakes made in that game by the other team than good startegy by your team that led to you winning the game, although your team's rush in the beginning was nice. No one ever said that you're a bad player, but that particular game was not worth being ROTW. You and Janizary both used, combined, about 2 types of units the whole game. Mo666 is right. BTW, what are you being accused of? If you have a problem with Americans, then maybe you're on the wrong website.

This post has been edited by squirrel: Jan 22 2006, 19:10 PM

I watched the whole game. The choice seems obvious to me. As Mooney and Skoobings were assaulting Janizary's TC, they should have both switched to all out MASS Halberdiers. 180 hit points, 50 damage vs calvary and 36 damage to buildings. They should have continued pressing the advantage with Halberdiers and gone after Pip hardcore to create a 2vs1 game. I don't care who you are, 1 expert cannot beat 2 experts even if both experts are in rough shape from taking out the weaker player. The Ruyters, Dragoons, and Falconets were complete waste of resources. They should have looked at the score and said: "Duh, lets take out the player who's score is 100 points below us."

Pip, I really marvel at you skill. I have watched some of your recorded games and I have to say you one heck of a player.
Mooney, I have watched a lot of your games too and you have mastered the art of microing skirmishers.